In Good Company

Writer, host and educator Ashley C. Ford has written or guest-edited for publications including The Guardian, ELLE Magazine, BuzzFeed, New York Magazine, Marie Claire, The New York Times, taught creative nonfiction writing at The New School and Catapult.Co, hosted podcasts for HBO, Audible and Mastercard, and had her work listed among Longform & Longread's Best of 2017. Her memoir Somebody’s Daughter was published in early June and became an instant New York Times bestseller. A powerful account of a childhood defined by race, poverty, a father in prison, and Ashley’s search for a sense of self in the years that follow, Somebody’s Daughter is gut-wrenchingly honest, especially when it comes to money, or the lack thereof – and in fact Ashley is someone who has over the years written and spoken very honestly about her earnings and relationship with money. We talked about Ashley’s class transition and how having money does or doesn’t affect people’s worldviews, as well as some of the most pervasive money myths: that talking about it is ‘rude’; that those who have a lot of money have necessarily worked hard for it; that being ‘busy’ is somehow an indicator of virtue. Plus – navigating money within heterosexual relationships, and what it’s like when traditional gender roles are flipped and women become the breadwinners, and Ashley’s own experiences of that. Follow Ashley on Twitter and Instagram (@ismashfizzle) Read Somebody’s Daughter https://www.waterstones.com/book/somebodys-daughter/ashley-c-ford/9781786581297   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

On today’s episode I’m talking to the journalist and podcaster Anna Sale, who’s the creator of Death, Sex & Money – WNYC’s hugely popular podcast about the big questions and hard choices that are often left out of polite conversation. In June, Anna published a book, Let’s Talk About Hard Things, in which she considers her own history of facing (and sometimes avoiding) difficult subjects; subjects such as race and wealth, inequality, grief, love, death, power – basically all the things that shape our daily lives, but which we often struggle to have conversations about. Unsurprisingly, Anna has a lot to say about money – specifically why it’s so hard to talk about it openly and why it makes us feel so exposed. We also talked a lot about when money becomes a source of conflict in relationships, and how to work around that – in her book Anna talks about how different attitudes towards money (in part) contributed to the breakdown of her first marriage, and what she’s learned about navigating those differences in relationships moving forward; as well as how to deal with those disparities when they crop up in the context of your friendships. And of course, there’s plenty of practical advice in this episode on how to have these tricky conversations (about money and other things) with the people in your life. Find Anna on Twitter (@annasale) and Instagram (@annasalepics) Read Let’s Talk About Hard Things https://www.waterstones.com/book/lets-talk-about-hard-things/anna-sale/9781911617617 Listen to Death, Sex & Money https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/deathsexmoney/episodes   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Youtuber and content creator Lucy Moon has been creating content online – and being paid for it – since long before many of us had even heard of the word ‘influencer’, and so this episode is a real insider’s account of an industry and lifestyle that commands a great deal of cultural fascination, and is also largely dominated by women. We covered alot on this episode – what it’s like participating in ‘the economy of the self’, and the pressure that comes with having your professional and financial success contingent on being ‘liked’; the gender bias in the scrutiny that many influencers experience and how Lucy deals with other people’s negative perceptions of her job, as well as why some of those criticisms tend to arise, and the ethical considerations that underpin Lucy’s partnership choices. And of course we talked about privilege – in this case class and race privilege – and the role that that plays within the influencer economy. How it determines who is and isn’t able to monetise their lives, and how much they get paid to do so. Find Lucy on Twitter (@iamnotlucymoon) and Instagram (@iamlucymoon)   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

In 2019, the writer Clare Seal started an Instagram account @myfrugalyear in order to anonymously document her journey out of £27,000 worth of debt. Her story immediately struck a chord, and @myfrugalyear now has 78,000 followers who’ve followed Clare’s journey – that of a working mother of two on an average salary trying her best to take control of her financial situation. Last year Clare published Real Life Money: An Honest Guide To Taking Control Of Your Finances, which is very much a realistic approach to personal finance that addresses many of the deeper causes of debt and financial difficulties, and offers advice that readers can adapt to their own pace and circumstances. On this episode we talked about the emotional underpinnings of debt, and the role that social media and Instagram comparison culture played in Clare’s own situation, as well as how she tries to mitigate those influences now. We also discussed the stigma of not having money, the guilt and shame that often ensues, and how to alleviate those feelings if that’s something you’re suffering from. And of course – Clare shared some excellent practical advice for anyone taking the first steps in trying to tackle their debt. Find Clare on Twitter (@claremseal) and Instagram (@myfrugalyear) Buy Real Life Money: An Honest Guide To Taking Control Of Your Finances https://www.waterstones.com/book/real-life-money/clare-seal/9781472272294   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Yomi Adegoke is a multi award-winning journalist and author who writes about race, feminism, class, politics and how those things intersect. Besides having columns in both Vogue and the Guardian, Yomi is also the co-author of Slay In Your Lane: The Black Girl Bible, an inspirational guide to life for Black British women, as well as series of follow-up titles including Slay In Your Lane: The Journal, and most recently Loud Black Girls, an anthology of Black British writing featuring essays from the voices of twenty emerging and established Black British writers. We chatted about the emotional significance of Yomi buying her own home earlier this year, as well as the many responsibilities that come with being a homeowner; her changing class identity and how her upbringing shaped her relationship with money; the ‘shame’ of being middle-class and the cultural reluctance to admit to class privilege, as well as the differences in the Black British experience when you’re middle-class as opposed to working class. Yomi also shared some brilliant insights into the practicalities – and challenges – of buying a home as a self-employed person, and we finished off with a broader discussion about career anxiety, and how that’s prompted Yomi to think about her long term career plans. Find Yomi on Twitter (@yomiadegoke) and Instagram (@yomi.adegoke) Read her Vogue article about homeownership, gentrification, class and race https://www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/yomi-adegoke-gentrification-and-class   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Journalist Vicky Spratt is the i Paper’s housing correspondent as well as an editor at Refinery29 UK, and has been reporting on the UK’s housing crisis for a number of years. In 2016 she created a successful campaign, Make Renting Fair, designed to highlight the plight of ‘Generation Rent’, and which resulted in the government announcing a ban on letting agency fees for tenants. Her forthcoming book Tenants will be published next year, and is set to be the most comprehensive look at the human impact of the housing crisis yet. On this episode, Vicky carefully explains why the UK’s housing market is so messed up before going on to demystify the pros and cons of some of the schemes frequently advertised as the best way for first time buyers to get onto the property ladder, including shared ownership and Help To Buy – the latter of which was Vicky’s own route into homeownership. We also discussed the more emotional side of how housing insecurity affects people, and the consequences of the UK’s cultural obsession with homeownership, as well as class and social mobility, in particular Vicky’s experiences of disguising her own class background to fit in while she was studying at Oxford.   Find Vicky on Twitter (@Victoria_Spratt) and Instagram (@vicky.spratt) Read Vicky’s article on Help To Buy for Tortoise https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2019/08/20/help-to-buy-190820/ Pre-order Vicky’s forthcoming book Tenants: The People on the Frontline of Britain's Housing Crisis (2022) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tenants-People-Frontline-Britains-Housing/dp/1788161270   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Mona Chalabi is a data journalist, producer and presenter whose work has appeared in publications ranging from the New Yorker to the Guardian, and who’s also written for radio and TV networks including NPR, Gimlet, Netflix, and the BBC, as well as being one half of the team that created an Emmy-nominated video series called Vagina Dispatches. Plus she’s an illustrator, with much of her artwork focusing on bringing data to life by visualizing important information around various political and social issues, from poverty and wealth to women’s health issues and racial inequities. On this episode we discussed the concept of ‘money dysmorphia’ – that is a dissonance between your feelings about your financial circumstances and the reality – as well as how your upbringing and childhood experiences affect your relationship to money, particularly if you’re from an immigrant background. We also talked about toxic workplaces and racism at work, and deciding whether or not to speak up publicly about that, as well as how freelancing has changed Mona’s relationship to money. Find Mona on Twitter and Instagram (@monachalabi) Read Mona’s Guardian article about money dysmorphia: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/21/money-dysmorphia-cant-let-myself-have-nice-things   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Journalist, essayist, and media entrepreneur is co-host of the long-running and phenomenally popular podcast Call Your Girlfriend, and has written for publications including The New York Times, New York Magazine, the LA Times, The Gentlewoman, and The Guardian. She also has a newsletter called The Ann Friedman Weekly, which is a curation of great writing and interesting gems from far-flung corners of the Internet. Most recently Ann and her podcast co-host Aminatou Sow co-wrote Big Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close, which was an instant New York Times bestseller on publication last year, and is now out in paperback. Ann is full of wisdom on the nuts and bolts of working in media and being self-employed – especially when it comes to money – and has brilliant advice to offer on everything from negotiating your rates to protecting your intellectual property. We spoke about the business of podcasting and the economics of being a writer and publishing a book, and finished with a broader discussion about contemporary feminism, girlboss culture, and the rise and fall of the popular women’s co-working space The Wing. Find Ann on Twitter and Instagram (@annfriedman) Buy Big Friendship: https://www.waterstones.com/book/big-friendship/aminatou-sow/ann-friedman/9780349013022 Listen to Call Your Girlfriend: https://www.callyourgirlfriend.com/ Subscribe to Ann’s newsletter: https://www.annfriedman.com/weekly   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate on 8th July and available to pre-order now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba, hosted by Sharmadean Reid on 7 July: https://www.fane.co.uk/otegha-uwagba Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Delighted to share an extract from my forthcoming memoir We Need To Talk About Money, all about my childhood and teenage years, going to a private school, and the early money lessons I learned during that period of my life. We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate on 8th July and available to pre-order now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba, hosted by Sharmadean Reid on 7 July: https://www.fane.co.uk/otegha-uwagba Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Paris Lees is a prominent journalist and British Vogue columnist whose incredible memoir and debut book What It Feels Like For A Girl is published this week. Born and raised in Hucknall, near Nottingham, Paris has written for publications including the Guardian, the Independent, the Telegraph and VICE, and presented programmes for BBC Radio 1 and Channel 4, as well as having been a vocal campaigner for the transgender community. What It Feels Like For A Girl is a boldly-written account of an extraordinary life story, and in our conversation we touch on everything from how Paris feels about being labelled as an ‘activist’, to her tumultuous teenage years, and her time as a sex worker; as well as topics such as class and code switching, and how acquiring privilege and money can make your life easier if you’re from a marginalised background. Plus – we discussed how vulnerable trans children and teenagers often are, and what it feels like to have your identity so heavily debated and politicised.   Find Paris on Twitter and Instagram (@parislees) Buy What It Feels Like For A Girl https://www.waterstones.com/book/what-it-feels-like-for-a-girl/paris-lees/2928377038854   Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Pandora Sykes is a journalist, podcaster and author of the Sunday Times bestselling collection of essays How Do We Know We’re Doing It Right?, which attempts to dissect and give some shape to the infinite choices that modern life presents us with. Previously an editor at the Sunday Times Style (you may remember her days as the magazine’s Wardrobe Mistress), Pandora is also the former co-host of the wildly successful podcast The High Low Show, which during its 4-year duration grew to become one of the biggest podcasts in the UK. In this episode we discuss several of the essays from her book, touching on everything from ambition and ‘comparisonitis’, to the wellness industry and the psychology of fast fashion. We also discussed Pandora’s own career – the beginning and end of the High Low, her time as a fashion journalist, dealing with criticism, and her personal definition of career success – as well as her thoughts on the likely ramifications of our global annus horribilis. Find Pandora on Twitter (@pinsykes) and Instagram (@pandorasykes) Pre-order the paperback of How Do We Know We’re Doing It Right? https://www.waterstones.com/book/how-do-we-know-were-doing-it-right/pandora-sykes/9781786332073   Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Amy Fraser is the founder of OKREAL, a self-development platform for women that’s focused on providing the community and resources that women need to build the lives they want - both in the office and outside of it - offering everything from panel discussions and workshops, to digital content and group mentoring sessions. In this episode we discuss the importance of building a career around your life (as opposed to the other way round), how to use career uncertainty to your advantage, the secret to cultivating a thriving community, securing brand partnerships and much more. We also dive into a pretty traumatic period of Amy’s life – the sudden end of her marriage when she was 5 months pregnant with her first child – and how she found the resilience to cope with that situation, and her advice for anyone who is “facing the unfaceable”. Find Amy on Instagram at @fr.amy, and OKREAL at @heyokreal Discover OKREAL’s resources at okreal.co   Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin      

Anna Wiener is a contributing writer to The New Yorker online, where she writes about Silicon Valley, start-up culture, and technology, and the author of tech memoir Uncanny Valley, which tells the story of Anna’s time working in Silicon Valley during her mid to late twenties.   Despite its tech world setting, Uncanny Valley is very much an everywoman story that will be familiar to any woman who’s ever worked in a sexist environment, and it touches on everything from gendered discrimination and emotional labour in the workplace, to why your work will never be your family, and the lies that companies often tell their employees. It’s also a brilliant exploration of the often toxic nature of tech startups, and the ethical quandaries that many of those companies are struggling to address.   Read Uncanny Valley (4th Estate) https://www.waterstones.com/book/uncanny-valley/anna-wiener/9780008296865 Find Anna on Twitter (@annawiener)   Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Academic, activist, broadcaster and SOAS university teaching fellow Emma Dabiri joins me to discuss her latest book What White People Can Do Next: From Allyship to Coalition. Written in the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder last year and the subsequent conversations on racism and anti-racism that followed it, What White People Can Do Next is a simultaneously radical and practical essay aimed at changing the way we talk about racial injustice, and featuring some incredibly nuanced and thoroughly original analyses of race, class, privilege and capitalism. A thoroughly illuminating read – and now a Sunday Times and Irish Times bestseller – it tackles the subject of race through a very different lens to the prevailing narrative, and in our discussion Emma shares why she felt so compelled to write this essay, the problems with the current anti-racist framework, the role that social media plays in learning about anti-racist theory and her thoughts on coalition building and the importance of finding common ground across racial lines. Find Emma on Twitter and Instagram (@EmmaDabiri) Read What White People Can Do Next: From Allyship to Coalition (Penguin Books) https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Emma-Dabiri/What-White-People-Can-Do-Next--From-Allyship-to-Coalition/25378182 Audiobook extract courtesy of Penguin   Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Journalist Sirin Kale is a features writer for the Guardian, Observer, British Vogue, Wired UK, VICE, GQ, and many other publications, and was previously an editor at VICE UK, where she launched their award-winning anti-stalking campaign Unfollow Me. Sirin authors the Guardian's flagship longform series on Covid-19 deaths, Lost to the Virus, which tells the stories of the individuals who died of Covid-19 in the UK, and the structural and systemic factors that contributed to their deaths. In this episode we covered everything from corporate lobbying and how it influences politics, to pivoting careers in your late twenties and how Sirin knew it was time to quit her corporate job and pursue journalism. We also discuss media precarity and the overall direction of the journalism industry, as well as what motivates Sirin on a day-to-day basis, and what she considers the role of journalists to be in our current political climate. Find Sirin on Twitter (@thedalstonyears) and Instagram (@sirin_kale) Read Sirin’s Lost To The Virus series for the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/society/series/lost-to-the-virus On the end of girlboss culture for Tortoise https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2020/12/02/wing-women/ Reporting from the Sarah Everard vigil for The Cut https://www.thecut.com/2021/03/police-violently-broke-up-a-vigil-for-sarah-everard-photos.html   Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones. Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin.

Journalist Sarah Jaffe’s work focuses on the politics of power, especially within the workplace, and her writing has appeared everywhere from the New York Times and the Atlantic to the Guardian and many, many more. Most recently she’s written a deeply compelling new book called Work Won’t Love You Back, which seeks to examine what Sarah calls the ‘labour-of-love myth’ – the idea that certain work isn’t really work, and should be done out of love or vocational passion, and how that myth is then used to exploit workers, allowing work to encroach on almost every part of our lives. We discuss everything from the fetishisation of busyness and hustle culture, to the impact of a year spent working from home, and how the pandemic is likely to change workplace structures in years to come. Plus, Sarah has some fascinating thoughts on the gig economy and self-employment, the role that personal brands play in creative careers, and how unionising might just be our way out of many of the workplace ills we discuss in this episode.   Find Sarah on Twitter and Instagram (@sarahljaffe) Buy Sarah’s book Work Won’t Love You Back out now   Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones. Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin.

Journalist, public speaker, creative consultant, talk show host, fashion icon – there is nothing Marjon Carlos can’t – or does not – do. As a journalist, Marjon’s works sits squarely at the intersection of style and culture, and covers a range of really fascinating topics and personalities, from Cardi B to intersectional feminism. She was previously a Senior Fashion Writer at Vogue, and is now the Editorial Director at lingerie brand CUUP, and her work has appeared in Vogue, Elle, Refinery29, Vanity Fair, Wall Street Journal, Porter Magazine and many more. She’s also the host of the quarantine break-out hit IGTV talk show Your Favorite Auntie, billed as advice “from someone you actually listen to”. In this episode we get into it – discussing everything from fashion as self-expression to critical race theory and the corporatisation of activist causes (hello Allyship Industrial Complex). Marjon outlines the career choices that got her to where she is, her experiences at Vogue, and racism and diversity within the fashion industry as a whole – we’re talking colourism, light skin privilege, ‘palatability’… the works. Plus, how she adapted to freelance life and has built a deeply enviable portfolio career. Find Marjon on Twitter (@Marjon_Carlos) and Instagram (@marjon_carlos) Catch up on Your Favorite Aunty on Instagram (@yourfavoriteauntieshow) Some of Marjon’s recent work: Cardi B profile (Elle) www.elle.com/culture/music/a33537374/cardi-b-interview-september-2020/ FKA Twigs profile (Elle) www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a35460385/fka-twigs-shia-la-beouf-abuse/ Fashion Was Super White In 2009. It Still Is (The Cut) www.thecut.com/2019/09/fashion-was-super-white-in-2009.html White Women Fear (No Man’s Land) www.marjoncarlos.com/no-mans-land-article Some context for our ‘Dannileigh’ conversation at 39.35: www.bossip.com/1992773/danileigh-yellow-bone-colorist/   Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones. Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin.  

A wide-ranging conversation with Penny Martin, editor-in-chief of iconic women’s magazine The Gentlewoman. Widely recognised as the definitive style title for discerning women, as The Gentlewoman’s founding editor, Penny is responsible for the exacting editorial standards and refined taste that have made it so influential. Before being tapped by the publishers of Fantastic Man to head up the magazine back in 2010, Penny was previously a curator at the National Museum of Photography, Film & Television and chair of fashion imagery at University of the Arts, London. She also contributes to numerous international publications and consults for several brands, including the likes of Miu Miu and Nike, and is a trustee of The National Trust for Scotland. In this episode we discuss how the magazine has evolved since its debut in 2010 and going against the grain of women’s glossies, as well as the magazine’s driving ethos, the nuts and bolts of the editorial process, and some of The Gentlewoman’s most iconic covers to date. Find Penny Martin on Twitter and Instagram @pennyjanemartin Find The Gentlewoman on Twitter @thegentlewoman and Instagram @the_gentlewoman Check out The Gentlewoman’s archive of interviews at www.thegentlewoman.co.uk/library Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones. Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin.

A special bonus episode produced in collaboration with the Standard Hotel as part of their new audio programming platform, Sometimes Radio, and recorded in the Library Lounge of the Standard Hotel’s London outpost.  This episode is a live recording from the Feminist State of the Union I hosted on International Women’s Day, a conversational salon about contemporary feminism featuring contributions from award-winning author Reni Eddo-Lodge, broadcaster Zezi Ifore, and Dazed Digital’s Head of Fashion, Emma Hope Allwood, and covering everything from girlboss culture and the problem with corporate feminism, to intersectionality and how we can all be ‘better’ feminists and allies to marginalised communities. Follow Reni Eddo-Lodge on Twitter. Follow Zezi Ifore on Twitter. Follow Emma Hope Allwood on Twitter. For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at https://www.womenwho.co/, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

As the youngest ever person to be appointed editor-in-chief of a Condé Nast title – and only the second ever African American person to hold that position – former Teen Vogue Editor-in-Chief Elaine Welteroth was the driving force behind the magazine’s pivot to a more political, more socially conscious editorial stance that earned it an army of new readers and admirers. An award-winning writer and New York Times bestselling author (on account of her memoir More Than Enough), Elaine has charted a pretty unprecedented course through the media industry – and she’s only just getting started. We managed to cover so much on this episode, from existential careers crises and navigating toxic working environments, to how to approach your career role models for advice, and the salary negotiation lessons Elaine had to learn the hard way. Her story is a lesson in harnessing ambition whilst staying true to yourself, and Elaine speaks with refreshing candour about the ups and downs of being at the forefront of one of the most prestigious media brands in the world. Buy Elaine’s memoir More Than Enough. Follow Elaine on Twitter and Instagram @elainewelteroth. In Good Company listeners can enjoy 30% off their first purchase from our episode sponsor ESENIA CBD’s range of supplements by entering the code WOMENWHO at checkout. For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

Seasoned fashion and beauty editor Funmi Fetto is something of an anomaly within the magazine world – a black journalist who’s risen to the heady heights of executive editor and beauty director of Glamour magazine, by way of a stint as beauty editor at British Vogue, and an on-going column for the Observer. She’s recently published Palette, a carefully curated beauty guide aimed specifically at women of colour that British Vogue’s Editor-in-Chief Edward Enninful has described as “ground-breaking and essential reading”. We get deep on the subject of racism within the beauty industry, with Funmi sharing her experiences navigating the predominantly white spaces of fashion, and the wider issues that still persist when it comes to how brands interact with black consumers, from colourism and discriminatory marketing tactics to microaggressions and outright racism. Plus – Funmi gives her opinion on the so-called death of print media and how media outlets should adapt to our new digital reality, as well as a few pointers for aspiring magazine journalists hoping to break into an endlessly competitive industry. Buy Palette: The Beauty Bible for Women of Colour. Follow Funmi Fetto on Twitter and Instagram @funmifetto. For flexible, full-service office spaces, check out our episode sponsor Storey. For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

Consider this episode a masterclass in brand storytelling, courtesy of Kate Hamilton and Emily Ames, co-founders of content and communications agency Sonder & Tell, which specialises in helping brands craft their messaging and figure out how best to communicate with their customers. Since setting up Sonder & Tell two years ago, the pair have worked with clients that range from food startups to sexual health apps, and earlier this year they teamed up with fashion brand Jigsaw to publish an anthology of essays by some of the UK’s leading female writers. On this episode they share vital tips for brands trying to figure out how to do ‘content’ properly, addressing everything from the importance of creating a strong brand narrative (and how to do that), to why so many brands seem to keep getting it wrong. Plus, find out what to expect when it comes to getting a service-based business off the ground, as Kate and Emily share what they’ve learned about business development, setting their rates, and figuring out which clients and projects are going to be more trouble than they’re worth… Follow Sonder & Tell on Instagram (@sonderandtell) or head to their website sonderandtell.com For flexible, full-service office spaces, check out our episode sponsor Storey: storey.co.uk For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

Food writer and chef Alison Roman look set to be the millennial inheritor to Nigella’s domestic goddess crown – funny, sharp, and (cliché though it might sound) effortlessly cool, it’s no wonder she’s developed a cult following in the US (and racked up over 200,000 followers on Instagram). A columnist for the New York Times and contributor to food magazine Bon Appetit, Alison’s also the author of two cookbooks – Dining In, a best-selling collection of recipes published in 2017, and the forthcoming Nothing Fancy (out October 31st). On today’s episode we talk about how she navigated the hyper-masculine world of restaurant kitchens as a young woman, the money lessons she’s learned since becoming self-employed four years ago, and the effect having a huge Instagram following has had on her career, both good and bad.  Nothing Fancy (Hardie Grant) is out on October 31st. Follow Alison (@alisoneroman) on Twitter/Instagram. For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

You’ll likely already be familiar with beauty and tech entrepreneur Sharmadean Reid, who made her name within the beauty industry through WAH, the nail salon and beauty brand that kicked off the nail art trend globally, and went on to shape beauty and girl culture around the world. A serial entrepreneur, Sharmadean has now turned her hand to the tech world with Beautystack, and on this episode she shares what she’s learned about building culturally influential brands and businesses over the years, touching on everything from social media strategy and trend forecasting, to raising investment and managing your company finances. Follow Sharmadean (@sharmadeanreid) and Beautystack (@beautystack).   For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

“Selfhood is the economic engine of the Internet” – so says Jia Tolentino, staff writer at the New Yorker, and author of Trick Mirror: Reflections on Self-Delusion, a razor-sharp collection of essays examining contemporary American culture that touches on everything from the commodification of feminism and the “nightmare” of personal branding, to the similarities between religion and MDMA, and our cultural obsession with ‘the scam’. Find out how the author of one of the most talked about books of 2019 (Trick Mirror debuted on the New York Times bestseller list at #2) has been navigating the paradox of self-promotion, her take on the ubiquity of ‘girlboss culture’, and how she manages to stay sane online. Plus – some pearls of wisdom on the art of good essay writing. Buy Trick Mirror (4th Estate), out now. Find Jia Tolentino on Twitter (@jiatolentino) and Instagram (@jiatortellini). For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month’s guest is Liv Little, founder of gal-dem, a media platform run by women and non-binary people of colour. Tune in to hear us discuss the business side of building a viable digital media platform, from the ins and outs of raising money from investors to the key to successful brand partnerships. Plus – the microaggressions that prompted Liv to start gal-dem in the first place, how we REALLY feel about Diversity Panels, and a letter from a listener debating whether or not to pursue a career as an influencer. Thanks also to our (first ever!) show sponsor Motley London (www.motley-london.com), a contemporary jewellery brand on a mission to democratise design. In Good Company listeners can enjoy a 15% discount off all Motley pieces by entering the code WOMENWHO15 at checkout. gal-dem.com Find Liv Little on Twitter (@livlittle) and Instagram (@livslittle). For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

“Everyone experiences failure, but not everyone is honest about it, so it can sometimes seem as if everyone else has perfect lives - and that adds to your sense of personal failure". Elizabeth Day is an award-winning journalist, acclaimed author, creator of the hugely popular How To Fail podcast - and now author of a forthcoming book of the same name - and on this month's episode we cover everything from feeling like an outsider at work and surviving male-dominated newsrooms, to the major career change that helped her realise her value, and how she gained enough agency to start saying no at work. Also on the agenda: dealing with criticism and learning to filter out bad opinions. Not relying on external validation to justify your work. The value of sharing your personal experiences with other people. How To Fail (4th Estate) out on April 4th. Find Elizabeth on Twitter/Instagram (@elizabday). For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

Best-selling author, award-winning journalist and chart-topping podcaster Dolly Alderton joins us in the studio to chat about the whirlwind year she's had since her debut book came out, her thoughts on turning 30, the pressure (and joys!) of promoting and selling books, and how she finds the time to write. We also had an in-depth chat about privilege and private education (in light of a much-debated column Dolly recently wrote for The Sunday Times Style), the role that money has played in her career choices thus far, and the business of podcasting. Plus – advice for a recent graduate who's absolutely hating their first job. Everything I Know About Love (paperback edition, with a new chapter on turning 30) Find Dolly on Twitter/Instagram (@dollyalderton) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

“Likeability is still a huge issue for women in the workforce – they can’t just be good at what they do, they have to be likeable in the process”. Sobering words from journalist Gemma Hartley, whose new book Fed Up explores the burden of invisible labour and why it tends to fall more heavily on women both at home and in the workplace - as well as offering up practical solutions on how to better navigate it. Plus some advice for a listener who’s concerned about the lack of diversity in their office, and not sure how best to address it. Fed Up by Gemma Hartley Find Gemma Hartley on Twitter (@gemmahartley) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month's guest is Abigail Bergstrom, Head of Publishing at digital talent agency Gleam. If you dream of being a published author some day, Abigail's got plenty of advice on how to make that happen, from approaching literary agents, to the pros and cons of self-publishing. Plus – an Ask Otegha segment on coping with a misogynistic work environments. Gleam Titles: www.gleamtitles.com Find Abigail Bergstrom on Instagram (@abigailbergstrom) and Twitter (@AbigailBergstrm) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month we're talking about the business of curation with Georgia Spray, founder of London’s coolest affordable art platform Partnership Editions. We covered everything from her approach to building a brand identity and the importance of choosing collaborations with care, to the process of transitioning your side project into your 9 – 5, and how it’s possible to translate having good taste into an actual business model. Plus – some advice for a nervous listener on how to nail public speaking. Partnership Editions: www.partnershipeditions.com Find Georgia Spray on Instagram (@georgiaspray) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

"Being good with money isn’t a science” - so says millennial money expert Laura Whateley, who’s this month’s guest on In Good Company...and it’s a Money Special! Tune in to hear Laura explain why it’s so bloody hard to talk about money openly, how she’s gotten better at managing her finances over the years, what millennials can do to improve their chances of getting on the housing ladder, and what to do if you’re in a relationship where one partner earns significantly more than the other. Laura Whateley’s book: Money: A User’s Guide Find Laura Whateley on Twitter (@lwhateley) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month’s episode features fashion journalist and influencer Katherine Ormerod. Tune in to discover the highs and lows of working in the fashion industry, the various routes of making money from social media, and the not-so-glamorous side of being an influencer. Plus – advice on how to deal with a colleague who keeps undermining you on account of your gender. Katherine Ormerod’s book: Why Social Media is Ruining Your Life Katherine Ormerod’s anti-perfectionism platform: http://www.workworkwork.co/ Find Katherine Ormerod on Instagram (@katherine_ormerod) and Twitter (@katherine_orm) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

On this month's episode, we've got journalist Mona Chalabi, Data Editor at the Guardian US about the popularity of her Instagram account, the trials and tribulations of being a woman of colour working in media, changing beauty standards, and her Emmy-nominated Vagina Dispatches series. Plus – some advice for a letter writer whose terrible boss who keeps throwing her under the bus. Find Mona Chalabi on Instagram (@monachalabi), Twitter (@monachalabi) and monachalabi.com. For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month’s episode features Marina Guergova, founder of two thriving retail brands – lifestyle concept shop The Basics Store, and womenswear brand Marina London. Tune in to hear Marina get very real about the money side of running a business, share tips on how to run a successful pop-up, and let us in on her creative process when it comes to curating a seriously beautiful brand and physical space.  Plus – her thoughts on why pop-ups are the future of retail, and tips for convincing people to get on board with your business idea when you’re just starting out. Find The Basics Store on Instagram (@give__receive) and thebasicsstore.com/ Find Marina London on Instagram (@marinalondon) and marinalondon.com/ For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month we've got the fabulous Gynelle Leon in the hot seat, owner of PRICK – London’s first (and best) cacti and succulents shop - sharing her wisdom on everything from how to navigate a major career pivot, to the ins and outs of running a retail space, and defining your own personal definition of success. Plus – advice on dealing with terrible bosses who throw you under the bus for their mistakes. PRICK: www.prickldn.com Find Gynelle Leon on Instagram (@bowbelle) and Twitter (@bowbelle) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

On this month's episode we've got multi-hyphenate author, broadcaster and podcaster Emma Gannon in the hot seat. Expect details of her new book The Multi-Hyphen Method, a discussion about the pros and cons of 'side hustles', and Emma’s thoughts on why you shouldn't call yourself a freelancer. Plus – a letter from a listener who's struggling with her confidence after a bit of a tough time career-wise. Emma Gannon’s podcast: CTRL, ALT, DELETE Find Emma Gannon on Instagram (@emmagannonuk), Twitter (@emmagannon) and emmagannon.co.uk. For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

On this month's episode I'm joined by Reni Eddo-Lodge, author of one of 2017's most talked about books: Why I'm No Longer Talking To White People About Race. Tune in to hear us discussing the challenges of freelancing, how to create boundaries when it comes to work, and the effects of structural racism in the workplace. Plus – advice for someone considering moving in with their parents so they can pursue a different career path.  Reni Eddo-Lodge’s book: Why I'm No Longer Talking To White People About Race Find Reni Eddo-Lodge on Instagram (@renieddolodge), Twitter (@renireni) and renieddolodge.co.uk. For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

On this month's episode, we're in conversation with publishing powerhouse Sharmaine Lovegrove, head of new(ish) imprint Dialogue Books. We talk about what it's been like making the transition from self-employment and running her own businesses to joining a large company as a full-time employee, the business lessons she learned from watching The Apprentice, and how she chooses which books to publish. Plus – some advice for someone whose bosses keep promising a payrise that's yet to materialise, who's also trying to figure out if she's even on the right career path at the same time. Find Sharmaine Lovegrove on Twitter (@SharLovegrove) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month we’ve got Sabine Zetteler in the hotseat, founder of one of the creative industries’ foremost PR agencies, Zetteler. Sabine is a PR maestro, so of course she shared her advice on how best to promote your projects and ideas at launch; and we also talked about how (and when) to scale from being a one-woman ‘solopreneur’ to running a fully-fledged business of many. Plus – advice on how to deal with rude clients as a freelancer, in this month’s segment of Ask Otegha. Zetteler: www.zetteler.co.uk Find Sabine Zetteler on Instagram (@sabinezetteler) and Twitter (@SabineZetteler) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

This month we're in conversation with Lana Elie, founder of luxury e-florist Floom. From how to put together a business plan, to the pros and cons of crowdfunding, and how to manage and motivate a fast-growing team, think of this conversation as Biz 101 for budding entrepreneurs. Plus – advice for someone who thinks they’re being treated differently at work because they’re a woman. Floom: www.floom.com For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

On this month’s episode we're talking to journalist Zing Tsjeng, the UK editor of Broadly (VICE’s female-focused channel), about everything from how best to pitch editors as a writer, to her experiences as an outspoken woman – and woman of colour – online. Plus – some thoughts on female competition in the workplace, advice for a listener trying to pivot from a corporate field to a more creative role, and a recent grad struggling to get their foot on the career ladder. Find Zing Tsjeng on Twitter (@misszing) and Instagram (@miss_zing) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.

For our very first episode, we talk to Serena Guen, founder and CEO of multimedia travel brand SUITCASE, best known for its travel and fashion-inspired quarterly magazine. Plus – we hear from a freelancer who’s having trouble getting her clients to pay her, and offer some advice on how to cope if you’re struggling with a bossy co-worker (who isn’t actually your boss). SUITCASE: www.suitcasemag.com Find Serena Guen on Twitter (@SerenaGuen) and Instagram (@serenaguen) For more career-related ideas and advice, join the Women Who community by signing up at www.womenwho.co, or follow @oteghauwagba and @womenwho on Instagram and Twitter.