What does asbestos have to be encapsulated with?
In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the types of asbestos encapsulation. The commonly available encapsulation methods are:
Mechanical Encapsulation High Build Elastomeric Coating Penetrating Encapsulants Water Based Epoxy ResinsTranscript
Ian: Welcome to the Asbestos Knowledge Empire. I’m Ian Stone.
Neil: I’m Neil Munro. So today we are going to talk about asbestos and encapsulating asbestos materials, so we had a bit of a situation where one of our clients and they are looking to encapsulate some external asbestos. So asbestos insulating board soffits and the question they kind of raised was what do they have to encapsulate those materials with. So in their minds they’ve heard about the different materials and different products that run the market for encapsulating materials, so they adamantly know it have to be ET150 which is and will explain going to a bit more detail of exactly what it is. But it is a product that is common in they are used to encapsulate asbestos materials within the asbestos industry. So the external asbestos insulating boards soffits, fixated in their minds that it had to be two coats of ET150. That’s an okay material to use but it sorts of boil into question, how long would that actually last on the external of the property because it is actually not an external product, and it would face will it be on the outside, below the roof and there is gutters that’s sort of the soffits so that is going to be weathered and susceptible to a lot of rain and wind etcetera on the outside of the building. And they’ve already previously done called a lot of these encapsulating works throughout this property.
Ian: What do they do?
Neil: There is evidence that the ET150 that they have previously used has weathered, has starting to peel, starting to bubble.
Ian: Which that doesn’t surprise me.
Neil: Yeah.
Ian: Because like you say like the ET150 is elastomeric sealing. It dries with like a rubberize finish so that’s kind of our go to as an industry.
Neil: It is a perfect product for…
Ian: Stuff inside.
Neil: Yes, stuff inside, so
Ian: Or in walls.
Neil: Yeah, walls, asbestos insulating boards, ceiling, walls, paneling fabrics.
Ian: But like you say it is not an external paint. It is not an exterior paint.
Neil: No. It is perfect inside because it doesn’t get any weathering, doesn’t get any rain on it, gives it some impact protection. Doesn’t peel when it is dry. It can take a bit of vapor so in boiler rooms where there’s a bit of steam. It is okay for that. But when we are talking about wind, rain, hail, snow, temperatures constantly going up and down like freezing.
Ian: Yeah. But in their mind they just heard that’s ET150 is the asbestos paint.
Neil: It’s got to be that because that’s what you use for asbestos, and it’s all brought about big question is.
Ian: What can you actually use?
Neil: What can you actually use and do you have to use that?
Ian: Okay. We got a few that we’re going to run through of different ones that you can use and can be use, and it is kind of horses for courses. It is different products are better for different things.
Neil: We actually scan [unclear – 03:27] and even asbestos contractors guide as well. There is no specification.
Ian: No. The only that kind of mentioned was in essentials where it talks about a non.
Neil: Yeah, asbestos essential. There is a task sheet for encapsulating asbestos cement and it just said a low solvent.
Ian: That’s it, low solvent, which that is kind of a standard practice anyway because...
Neil: Yeah, that is a non-descript.
Ian: That’s coming at it from the health and safety point of view of high solvent paints so give more dangerous to your health, more risk of being more flammable, etcetera. So yeah, there are different thing that you can use. You can use normal house paints. Start kind of the lower end of the scale.
Neil: More emulsion.
Ian: Yeah, bit of emulsion. Slap it on there. It will cover it. It will seal it at exactly the same way. The thing with kind of standard paints is you’ll get a better finish that than you would… That’s the only thing with.
Neil: Pick the color you want.
Ian: Yeah pick the color you want. Get ET150 it comes in white, grey.
Neil: Dark grey.
Ian: Dark grey, yeah. And you’re in the realms of like took in other colors into mix with it which it is never ideal.
Neil: Yeah, we’ve removed emulsion obviously it is quite thin so particularly if you are encapsulating a friable material wouldn’t it take quite a few coats so and say to actually get a decent seal on it.
Ian: Even if you’re spraying it, it would. Whether you are spraying it or painting it with like brushes or rollers it definitely.
Neil: You need a good few coats probably just to actually seal it in particular like AIB where you have actually got fibers sticking out of the material.
Ian: You think of like when you are doing any decorating in your house like when you paint it. I mean it is brilliant one coat, makes me laugh every time. One coat, well, always needs two coats doesn’t it. Have you ever used the pink stuff? You paint it pink and it goes white. I’ve used that. Again, you still need more and you still miss a bit. That might be just me because I’m crap at decorating.
Neil: DIY specialist.
Ian: Yes, so you can use those. Now, the downside of using emulsion, like I said the upside is you get a better finish and you get the color you want. The downside is that there is no kind of impact protection there.
Neil: No.
Ian: That’s the problem, and that’s why when you ratchet it upon the next one on the scale is the ET150.
Neil: And particularly I suppose it depends on what kind of emulsion so like standard emulsion, you can wipe that off with a cloth quite easily so it is not really going to give you any protection over than it might just stick the fibers down to the material a bit, that’s been unsealed. Obviously if you have got like clean ones or something that’s a bit more.
Ian: Like the satin finish or whatever. Again, that gives you a little bit more…
Neil: A little bit stronger, sort of a stronger finish.
Ian: Yeah, but when you compare that like I say to the next one on the list which is ET150 that is where it comes into its own and that is why as an industry we use it a lot. It is a thick paint, it dries.
Neil: Compared to emulsion, yeah. If you’re looking at that emulsion that’s of ET15. ET150 looks more like paste, doesn’t it? It is real thick sort of paint.
Ian: It is fantastic and it does the job great. Like I said earlier you can encapsulate boiler room walls, ceilings, paint big panels of asbestos insulating boards, paint pipe work with it, whatever, and it goes on nice and thick. It covers really well. Once it is dry it does give a little bit of impact protection because it’s got that kind of rubberized finish.
Neil: Yeah, another thing I would say you’re not going to get a decorative finish.
Ian: That’s exactly where I was going with that. The finish is never meant.
Neil: Yeah, It is sealed.
Ian: Exactly, yeah. And there is a different job between painting like for aesthetics and painting for sealing the asbestos. And even if you got a painter and decorator in was asbestos trained to do that you still not going to get the finish that you would with normal stuff.
Neil: How many contractors you had say, no decorate mate.
Ian: Every single one. That’s a classic line. Yes, so that’s the only problem or the only downside but I mean most of the time when it is boiler rooms, back of house, all the rest of it, as long as it looks half decent and it is sealing the area. I mean don’t get me wrong you can get a good finish. It doesn’t always have to look like a dog’s dinner.
Neil: I was going to say like with big areas where contractors and sprayer applied it which involves watering the material down so it can be sprayable but they have to do a few more coats. You know, two coats is usually not enough so they end up doing three or four coats to get that protection layer but it is a smoother finish. It is a smoother finish whereas if you hand brushing it on you get extra on so you end up with a thicker layer but it does look a little bit rough. So it is important to bear in mind that if you’re encapsulating asbestos materials when somewhere where you want to look pretty.
Ian: Yeah, if you think about like on the entrance to a building or reception are or something.
Neil: Potentially not going to have a nice finish on that.
Ian: No. Not if they can’t spray it at least. But that said like I said that is the standard go to within our industry for those reasons but like we said it doesn’t necessarily have to be that. So the next one down on the list is like a penetrating encapsulant. See this kind of, again, they soak in to the material more. They give an even more protection because they kind of soak up into it and therefore that protection factor.
Neil: That comes a layer part of the layer on.
Ian: Yeah, becomes like a layer on the outside itself, and it is good for more friable asbestos types really. There is a few on the market.
Neil: But again that’s all on the application process where not being applied correctly and having the correct amount of layers building upon the material.
Ian: And the experience because when you’re working with these materials, I mean, like we say anybody can paint a wall, right. So yeah, fine, using emulsion, that’s fine. Using an ET150 that’s fine. When you start using the penetrating encapsulants you need to know how much of a layer you are putting on. How long that you are leaving it, how many coats you are giving it, the gaps and times in between because that can all affect because the last thing you want to do is encapsulate the substrate and then that causes damage to the actual asbestos.
Neil: Yeah. And there is obviously a cost difference between those and the ET150 as well. So that’ something to bear in mind and if you are encapsulating a lot of asbestos materials that’s going to increase, you know, it’s going to have a multiple…
Ian: And there is another one as well which is water base epoxy resins. Now they are available kind of either as a resin finish itself, so whereas kind of like the penetrating encapsulant, it will finish over the material and usually give like a cloudy or a clear finish. But also you can get them where you use like a chopped strand mat that goes into the mix as well. And again, that gives you a real high impact and high protection that’s kind of it becomes easier to use, easier to manage, it is cleanable.
Neil: Yeah, it kinds of give you a cleanable surface afterwards.
Ian: But again that even more so than the penetrating ones. That’s an even more difficult material to use and to get the right finish on.
Neil: Yeah, paint wise, yeah. So that’s kind of covering the actual encapsulating material but if you want to go to the next level and that sort of add into mechanical encapsulations in the HSE. You can actually build something around the materials and that could be anything.
Ian: Exactly that. I mean, it doesn’t have to be painted to be encapsulated. It could be a…
Neil: Box in with plaster board or anything. Yeah, aluminum casings or…
Ian: Seen the results over the years like boarding directly applied on like Supalax, stuff like that. What you said…
Neil: Yeah, put board and AIB, asbestos insulating board.
Ian: Plyboard in the boxing out, plaster board in and around it, metal sheeting put directly over it like panels put straight over it. Yeah, tin going around pipes, even wrapping with kind of fiber glass and [unclear – 10:53] wrapping them up. Again, this is all form of encapsulation.
Neil: Yeah. Again, going back to what I was talking about in the beginning, the asbestos insulating board soffits are more permanent solution for that. It could have been over clamming it with PVC and that probably would last for years, 20 years probably, you know in case material itself so encapsulation, few examples but if you want some real sort of protection is go to mechanical protection really.
Ian: Yeah, definitely.
Neil: Longevity for materials.
Ian: Like I said earlier it horse for courses so it depends on what you’re doing and what area it’s in and what you need it to do.
Neil: How long you want it to last and how much you want to spend.
Ian: Yeah, exactly that.
Neil: You know, if it is a building that you know in the future is going to be refurbed or might be demolished etcetera probably not going to want to spend loads protecting material. You just got to sort of weigh up those.
Ian: No. Just kind of the risk versus the need versus what’s actually the lifetime of that.
Neil: Exactly. And with that example it will be asbestos insulating boards soffits on the external, up high level. You don’t really need any impact protection.
Ian: And also with that, I mean, like you said they are really hang up on the idea of it’s got to be ET150. Well, it doesn’t. I mean there’s plenty of external.
Neil: Yeah, external masonry paint would could have been a better solution. You could even go, you know, a layer of coating of ET150 to give it that impact protection and asbestos protection and then maybe overcoating it with external masonry just to give it that weather proofing.
Ian: And that’s the key there like the point is like you said like it bubbled because it getting water damage and the rest it all ET150 is not going to stop that. The only thing that’s going to stop that from happening is weather protecting it.
Neil: And sometimes it is so you’ve got to look at is there another reason for that, and it might have been that water can ingress from, and there’s some small crack somewhere or could have been the fixtures that were actually letting water through so water is getting in behind the soffits against through, yeah, soaking through the soffit, so it is actually coming from on top as opposed to from underneath.
Ian: Well, in my house, recently I had a leak and it came in from, I don’t even know, it just came in. It has found its way in and that’s the problem of where it does.
Neil: Yeah, it will find its course don’t it.
Ian: Yeah, part of the least resistance.
Neil: That’s it definitely.
Ian: Have you found that one interesting. You’ve learned a bit about encapsulation and the fact that yes ET150 is the common industry standard go to but it is not necessarily the required one. You should just choose the best encapsulation for the job and what’s going to be better in the long run.
Neil: I see. I think the important thing is to make sure that whatever you do use is adequate for what you need it to.
Ian: It’s got to be fit for purpose.
Neil: Fit for purpose, and putting cost because you might have to end spending more in line.
Ian: Yup, so that’s just for now and remember asbestos first not last.
