Lizzo’s Complicated, Joyful Pop

The singer, rapper and songwriter’s peppy empowerment songs have made her an outlier in a field dominated by melancholic music. Guests: The Ringer's Justin Charity; Lindsay Zoladz; and William Robin.Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.